Michael Hearne, The Founder of Decentral Publishing, and the host of Uncensored Crypto Podcast comes on to talk about the Future of Cryptocurrency and his new docu-series, Uncensored Crypto
It has been a wild ride in Crypto World in the past couple of years! There are kids and teenagers making million and million of dollars from NFTs, Crypto, and even metaverse!
I was so fascinated by what's been happening in the Crypto world, I have Michael Hearne, The Founder of Decentral Publishing, and the host of Uncensored Crypto Podcast come on to tell me more about what happened in the past few years in the crypto world. He even made a 9 Parts docu-series called Uncensored Crypto which you can watch here: https://uncensoredcrypto.com/altucher to help you understand more about the future of Crypto!
In this episode, we also talked about why NFTs? What is the future, and uses for NFTs? And also, what is Metaverse? Why are kids, and teenagers just sitting at home, making money in Metaverse?
Remember to sign up to watch the 9-parts docu-series via https://uncensoredcrypto.com/altucher to learn more about the crypto space!
It’s a free pass to the world premiere of Uncensored Crypto, a new docuseries featuring 56 industry insiders sharing their predictions for 2022 and beyond. And… They’re giving away $5k in Bitcoin to one lucky viewer… and another $5k in altcoins for people who take part in the world-premiere fun and games.
To find out more and secure your free pass, go here before January 18th. https://uncensoredcrypto.com/altucher
My new book Skip The Line is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever you get your new book!
Join You Should Run For President 2.0 Facebook Group, and we discuss why should run for president.
I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltucher.com/podcast.
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James Altucher 0:00
So I've got Michael Hearne with me who is the producer and host of the Docu series, uncensored crypto. And I have a lot of questions for Michael. Michael, how are you doing?
Michael Hearne 0:13
Them? Fantastic. Thanks for having me, James
James Altucher 0:15
uncensored, crypto, the truth about crypto, you've got topics, you've got all these people that you've interviewed you, you are an expert yourself. It's all about every aspect, from NF T's to d phi to the metaphors to kind of the philosophy of crypto crypto versus Fiat. And I'm going to be a skeptic. So I'm proud. I'm very bullish on crypto in general. But I have lots of questions. And some of these are gathered from listeners as well. And there's just some basic stuff that I want to understand. I'm going to get right into the meat of it. We'll back up and do some basics as well. You have how many experts have you interviewed for this Docu series? First of all,
Michael Hearne 0:58
for this Docu series, 5757?
James Altucher 1:02
And what qualified like an expert?
Michael Hearne 1:04
Well, we talked to project founders, we talked to, you know, publicly traded CEOs, company CEOs. We talked to regulators, congressmen who are congressmen in the mix. But basically, they had to be someone who was actually in the industry engaged or someone who had helped shape the industry and get it to where it is today.
James Altucher 1:28
Here's my basic question about Bitcoin and crypto in general. So I'm going from top down, but we'll go from bottom up as well. Right now you have a theory M created or Bitcoin created projects like uniswap, which is a decentralized exchange, right pancake, which is also a decentralized exchange, you have the metaverse, you have entities, there's hundreds of millions of transactions happening a day, which is amazing. This is totally different from 2018, where there were no transactions per day, right now. There's real use cases. But here's what I'm worried about. These use cases are kind of crypto, doing things for crypto, meaning like, on the decentralized exchanges. They're exchanging, I could change my Aetherium for Bitcoin, I could change my bitcoin for Solano or whatever. And yep, and it's the same thing with these NF T's. I'm using crypto to buy other crypto related items. What, when are we going to see or have we already seen real world use cases? And if we haven't seen are their projects in development? Like what's I feel like 2020 21 was the year of let's it Kryptos real? Trillions are in it, right? transactions are happening hundreds of millions of transactions or billions of transactions. But now I want to see 2020 to be of the year whether it bleeds into the real world.
Michael Hearne 2:49
Right? Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I think what you see happening in El Salvador with Bitcoin being accepted as tender is probably a good boots on the ground use case. And that's kind of the thing is, there's a few things that I want to speak to regards to that. So one is it's largely the unbanked, and you know, outside of the Western markets, who were most poised to benefit from having this digital monetary system, this digital economy introduced into their world, right? Because if we're on a barter system, being able to transact digitally and creating velocity, right, those are really impactful things, access to financial services, etc. So we see a lot of that with the unbanked and the underbanked. And, and so we are seeing boots on the ground implementations, they are like rubber meets the road type stuff, but like what Flipside? Like, you know, things like microlending, or just being able to do remittances probably is is honestly one of the best use cases. So if I'm in immigrants or Romans, I don't understand. Yeah, so technically, right? It's it's entity to entity, it's just like, like no intermediary type transactions. The most common example would be like Western Union, right? So let's say I'm a migrant farm worker, I come to the US and make low wages, my family's back home, and I want to send them money, what are my options? Well, I can go to Western Union, if I've got an identity, I'll be able to send money if I don't have an identity, I have to find somebody who has an identity and pay them a fee or a percentage, so that I can send money back home and then Western Union takes you know, their their cut, which is, you know, pretty smaller transactions. All that kind of adds up to like 30% of the actual transaction. So here you are working your ass off, barely getting by trying to send money back to you know, to a country that's even poorer. And you're getting just taken to the cleaners. So that's a perfect example whereas I can Send USD t I can send bitcoin I can do that, you know, for pennies.
James Altucher 5:05
So okay, so as a currency, particularly like right now in El Salvador, you know, first of all, what does it mean for a country to accept Bitcoin as legal tender? And now this is a basic question, right? Like, like, I guess that means people will pay their taxes in El Salvador in crypto. And, yeah, once. And also, I guess whatever the currency was in El Salvador before probably wasn't very trustworthy, like there was probably an opportunity for it to fall apart. So what what what's our Salvador's risk in moving to crypto and what's what's it mean? And what are the countries are next?
Michael Hearne 5:43
Yeah, yeah. So I, I believe there was another Latin American country that either was considering it or actually followed suit. But I, I want to say Colombia, but I'm pulling that out of thin air probably got like a 10% chance of being right there. But so there are other countries that will follow suit, but to your point, they are going to be less developed, less stable economies. And the the advantages in that situation are? Well, from the government's perspective, I no longer have to maintain a stable currency. So I've outsourced that right.
James Altucher 6:23
And is there a risk for a not so stable government to not be able to control the currency?
Michael Hearne 6:28
Well, no, that's they can't control Bitcoin? That's, that's like, I think that's the pitch, right, is that it can't be debased because of the, because the country is in financial trouble, right. So politicians make bad choices, my savings don't get diluted down to nothing with hyperinflation, it sort of replaces and disintermediate the central bank, in this case,
James Altucher 6:52
let me press on that a little bit. So So one cause of hyperinflation, of course, is you have to print a lot of money. So a classic example is World War after World War One, Germany owed a lot of reparations to England to US and other countries. And they didn't owe that money in marks, they owed it in, let's say, pounds or dollars. And so they had to print a lot of marks, which debase their currency. And, you know, there was a trillion marks to buy a loaf of bread. But another cause of hyperinflation is what we're seeing now in the US with supply chain issues. Let's say some things actually do start costing more money. I guess prices will rise in crypto money in Bitcoin money.
Michael Hearne 7:38
So this is like an interesting question, right? So we start to get into the really like complex economy where there's so many factors, right. But what you'll see is that one of these types of assets is going to maintain the purchasing power in the real world, right? So as you know, like one of the ways to look at the macro environment between asset classes is say like, okay, in 1950, an ounce of gold would buy me a suit, right? And $20 would buy me a suit as well. Today, it cost me $2,000 To buy the same suit, but an ounce of gold will still give me the suit. Right? So when it comes to purchasing power, the theory is that the more these currencies inflate, the higher the value of Bitcoin will be relative to those currencies. But the question is, is will your purchasing power be increased? Or will you simply be you know, measuring it? In this, you know, same, like just larger denominations of a worthless currency, right?
James Altucher 8:48
Yeah, so So I see what you're saying. So it could be that if El Salvador falls apart, since crypto is tied to the price of objects around the world, it's hard for it. You won't see hyperinflation and El Salvador from here on out
Michael Hearne 9:03
if they stick with Bitcoin, because there can only be 21 million Bitcoin, and many of those are already lost in irrecoverable ways. So the money supply in that traditional, like Austrian economic sense, it can't be inflated. It's just not possible.
James Altucher 9:19
And I guess there because it's hard. Well, it's not really hard. People always say, Oh, well, how are you going to collect taxes, but everybody still has to fight, you know, it's against the law to not pay your taxes. So exactly, people, people are still going to be the equivalent of 1099 in these countries and W twos and so on. And it's not like and, you know, employers will report to the whatever the tax revenue services what all the income is, okay, so, yeah, what why won't the US anytime soon convert to Bitcoin?
Michael Hearne 9:52
Well, I think you know, there are a lot of people who stand to lose that happens. And just to be fair like it, we don't, we wouldn't want a destructive transition over to Bitcoin. Right? There's so much that's wound up in the current legal system and the financial instruments that have been, you know, figured out and codified and regulated over decades of time. to unwind that quickly, would be probably be catastrophic. People would lose a lot. We might even see like war riots, definitely civil unrest. So there's, there's that there's sort of like that, you know, this is a very complicated problem that we have to solve. And we probably should be a little bit methodical and think about the fact that hundreds of millions, even billions of people will be affected by the choices made. So there's some of that going on. And then there's, you know, the personal interests of the central banks themselves, you know, who wants to give up control of the money supply?
James Altucher 10:55
So let's take the flip side, could the US say no, Bitcoin allowed here?
Michael Hearne 11:02
They, I mean, they could, they could it would be, it would be a bad choice. They couldn't really enforce it. And what they would do is they would push all the wealth that this this new industry, this new type of technology is creating, they push it to another country?
James Altucher 11:19
Yeah, like, like, I was wondering this about El Salvador, for instance, like, is there banking now is their banking industry shooting through the roof because anybody wants to kind of deal with an unregulated banking environment in the crypto world is probably opening up shop in El Salvador, just the same way. Ireland became a haven for hedge funds, and places like Bermuda became a haven for hedge funds, because banking was less regulated in these countries.
Michael Hearne 11:46
Absolutely. I mean, you see this happening in the Bahamas, and you'll see it around the world. I mean, in many ways, the less developed economies have an advantage over the developed economies when it comes to crypto, because they have less to unwind, they have way more to gain by switching over.
James Altucher 12:03
So okay, you described one a real world use case which I which I buy into that, you know, always the dream for Bitcoin was that it would be used as a currency, Bitcoin or its, you know, descendants would be used as a currency in some form or other. And people are probably making applications like, here's how you, here's an easy way to transfer money. Here's your easy way to do e commerce and stuff like that. What about other real world use cases? Yeah, you know, and I always hear like, like, I hear, I think that there's real world use cases for blockchain. And we don't have to go into the weeds of what blockchain is. But is that you don't have to tie it to a coin necessarily, when you do a real, like, if you tie all your healthcare systems, to a blockchain technology, there's not necessarily a currency involved or a token.
Michael Hearne 12:47
So this is where it gets where you start to see the convergence of all these technologies. So I'm probably gonna, there were so there's so much to talk about here. Right? So we'll try to get on all this stuff we can. But one of the core problems I see out there is identity, right? What is digital identity? Right? You see it impact voting, right? For example. Oh, God, like, you know, like, what are we gonna do? Like, you know, how do we identify people just to do things like voting? You would think it was kind of easy, but probably not. To, you know, your healthcare stuff, right? How do you, like prove you're like, how do you interact with a health care provider, and provide them data and access to identity, then how do you go into the metaverse like, reveal yourself and your identity there? What about the DMV? What about passing through borders? Right? All of these things need to be built out so that we can tap into all the possibilities of this. So there's kind of goes back to one of the original things is what's the use case, and it's all like crypto or crypto. And that's true. That's, that's a good observation because we're at the state where you have to build the infrastructure. And then you start to build the application. So right now the big opportunities are the places where there are gaps and problems and broken pieces. And so when those get filled in, we'll start to see new applications that get developed on top of those just like you know, we did with the Facebook's and the Googles that no one could have predicted really until the tech was built other real world use cases I think, you know, decentralized finance.
James Altucher 14:24
Okay, let's talk about that for a second. So yeah, defy. And I don't you know, the word decentralized is almost a little confusing, just like the word the sentiment of crypto is a little confusing. Like nobody really wants to know about cryptography. No one really cares about decentralized like the average person, but it's this idea that okay, there's there's it there's much more automation, there's much fewer middlemen involved in a transaction. So a stock exchange, I go to the New York Stock Exchange I can there's a company in the middle and I could buy Apple stock or sell McDonald stock and There's a, there's a broker, there's a market maker, there's all these fees, there's potential for human error. But in these defy exchanges, and they're huge, there's like a billion dollars worth of transactions every day, but are more, but they're just crypto trading for crypto, even though the tech is there that they could trade stocks and other assets. And so I'm thinking 2022, should be the year I see other things other than crypto being traded.
Michael Hearne 15:26
Gotcha. Yeah, well, I mean, you could see, you know, the tokenization of anything, it's just another, like, way of having fractional ownership of something, is one use case of it. But I think I think defi is just like, in its really early phases, what will be really cool is whenever, you know, we no longer have to go get approved for a mortgage right by a bank, we'll just be able to simply use our digital identity and the data that's associated with it, to go out and say, Hey, I need a mortgage. You know, get it without having to jump through a bunch of hoops.
James Altucher 16:06
So how do you see that happening? Like, okay, so I recently got a mortgage. And it was like two months of due diligence on the bank, like paperwork going back and forth. My accountants full time job was dealing with my mortgage loan somehow, because I have a very odd living as opposed to a regular job. And how does crypto mortgages make this easier?
Michael Hearne 16:27
Yeah. So with the blockchain, everything's stored in an immutable public records. So think about the different sub components that went into the purchasing that house right. So you had the title research, right, which means they got to go dig through, you know, bigger and they pulling out the dusty bucks at the County Clerk's Office? Not really not anymore, right. But but when it What if you had that data on a blockchain? Right? You don't you know, you don't even need need a title company at that point. Because the blockchain is immutable. It's unchangeable. And so you know, who owns that house? You don't need a title company. You don't need title insurance, you don't need the time for them to do their work. So you speed up and you wipe out costs. Same thing with a bank, what does the bank do? There used to be a time and a day where you'd be like, Oh, James, you know, I've got you know, you know, me, we're buddies. We both play golf together, you know, I make a great living. But I've got a complicated tax return, I make money from a lot of different sources. Some of them are hard to verify. But you know, I'm good for it. And, you know, in the good old days, you'd say like, Yeah, I know, you, Michael, let's give you that mortgage. Well, now, it's not like that, right? You either have the number or you don't have the number, right. So they've turned it into an algorithm. Which, why do I need a human to run the algorithm? Right, it slows the process down makes it prone to errors, add cost, all of these things. The problem though, right now, is the reason people love defi is it pays, you know, 10 20% API, right? It's these insane yields. Nobody wants to loan out their money necessarily, for 30 years to get, you know, 5% and dy, at least not at this stage of the market maturity.
James Altucher 18:21
Again, like with mortgages, how will Why would somebody do a mortgage through crypto when you can get you know, heavy yields on your crypto,
Michael Hearne 18:30
it's a matter of me perceiving that the value I receive is greater than the value I'm giving up. But one of the principles that people are applying here is they're not selling their crypto, they're borrowing against it, and using that money to go buy the house so that their asset continues to appreciate, while they have use of the funds, it's not income, it's debt. What are taxes? Right, so
James Altucher 18:52
and so potentially, people could then trade like, let's say, you know, Jack at the golf club. So let's say I tokenize, my mortgage, I turned the my house into crypto essentially, and subdivided into like 1000 coins. So people could anybody can lend 1/1000 of my loan. Are you saying my loan could be traded on an exchange defy exchange?
Michael Hearne 19:18
Yeah, so that's secondary exchanges for those mortgages, just like their secondary exchanges for traditional mortgages.
James Altucher 19:25
And so there's opportunities maybe like, oh, I want to buy 50 mortgages in Florida. 50 mortgages in Austin are going to short mortgages in Illinois. So there's gonna be opportunities for like trading, that's not necessarily like a REIT. You get to pick your real essentially,
Michael Hearne 19:42
exactly. I mean, these these are all possible outcomes of this technology, and they're kind of natural evolutions. And that's what we're seeing right now in decentralized finance is you're seeing a duplicating of traditional finance in this tokenized economy.
James Altucher 19:58
But when will that start? because I don't see that happening. And for instance, you can, you know, using tokens like U Ma, or SN X, you can make synthetic stocks that trade like McDonald's or Tesla or whatever. And when are we going to start to see actual real world items like a house or a mortgage or a stock being traded on these defi exchanges? Because then once it seeps into that, then you're talking trillion dollars value for each exchange?
Michael Hearne 20:25
Absolutely. So there'll be a progression right now, it's, you know, like I said, it's building out the rails, the infrastructure. And what that means is you got all the pioneers, the people who are comfortable with risk, who are coming in. And we're actually kind of getting beyond that phase, where you got like that second wave of people who are maybe early adopters, you know, I don't know the mass market stages, exactly. But you've got those people coming in, and what they're gonna want is they're gonna want that yield, right. But as we continue to transact more and more in a digital world, and this stuff becomes just a native part of our lives, there are going to be people who migrate into this assets. And this is going to replace like, you know, traditional money markets. And they're going to be okay, getting those lower yields, because they know it's safe. And what they'll more likely do is there will be pools of money. So there'll be like, maybe a decentralized mortgage organization, where everybody pulls their money together. And then just like a bank, does they make mortgages to 1000s of people out of that pool. And they all take the the yield, right. But those are going to be, you know, lower risk investors. Right. So that kind of, like adoption cycle is hard to predict, I would not be shocked to see it in five to 10 years. But the hell do I know?
James Altucher 22:00
Though, you know, you know, quite a bit. So. So you're saying you're saying that particular type of use is could be five to 10 years away? And I do think that's happening. So like, here's an idea, I feel this is like, ground zero for entrepreneurs, investors in the crypto space. Like, if I was going to start a crypto, I mean, there's lots of crypto businesses you could start, but like, one thing I'm thinking of is, if you can IPO yourself, meaning, let's say I just graduated Harvard Law School, I'm hypothet. I, thankfully did not just graduate that school. But let's say I did, and I have $250,000 in student loans. Yeah, I could say I'm going to tokenize 10% of my income for the next 10 years. And so I'm going to make James coin and it's going to wrap I'm going to issue you know, a million coins and it's going to those million coins will represent it all my income will go into a black box 90% will go to me 10% will go to holders of these million coins, pro rata, and I can IPO myself, and maybe that's through like those coins, or actually a million NF T's or whatever I can I could IPO myself and use the money raised to pay down my student loans. And people could trade it like, Oh, he got a job at the top law firm. Now, now the James Bond goes up. Oh, he's homeless. Now the James
Michael Hearne 23:24
goes down. Yeah, what's the value? Yeah,
James Altucher 23:27
yeah, people can make a portfolio around, you know, people always say, I'm not investing in your company, I'm investing in you. Yeah, well, this would be a way to actually invest in you. And because all the income is going into a black box, there's no possibility of fraud. And, you know, unless unless the person really is, you know, working hard to be right, a fraud. But it seems to me that's like a no brainer, application of crypto and only crypto could be done for that. And then that could be traded on exchanges, like you could trade James coins on exchanges, or like a basket of coins, like I could buy Michael coin James coin, you know, Melissa coin and so on.
Michael Hearne 24:10
And not what the government's doing with taxes, right?
James Altucher 24:14
I guess so. Yeah. No,
Michael Hearne 24:16
that that that is absolutely it's, it's actually I've heard of one person who did that. And I think it, I think it's an interesting use case. And it kind of goes back to that identity. Whereas if I if I have that identity, that digital identity, then I can transact in that with whatever my income source is, which means that that income source can have a smart contract attached to this entity so that 10% of my money gets automatically distributed. So it is technical. It's technically feasible. And really, it's just kind of like, it's hard for people to get their minds around that right.
James Altucher 24:56
Yeah, cuz let's say let's say I sell 10% of my future, let's say I think my income is going to be going to average I just graduated college, I think my income is going to average over the 10 years. $100,000 a year, so a million dollars. So 10% of that would be $100,000. Right? So let's say I cut that in half, and I sell 10% of my future income for 50,000. So now you can expect a roughly seven, if, if I hit my average, you'll you'll experience roughly a 7% per year return, which is not so bad. But if I exceed my average, because you do your research, have a lot of faith in me, you don't get 1020 30% of your if I have entrepreneurial leanings, you might bet and say, okay, he might not be 1,000,000% return. And so you buy a basket of these, and it's a it's a new asset class. Yeah, 50 million people do it. And these decent defi exchanges, you know, like uni or cake or whatever, you know, dy dx or whatever, start trading it. That's, that's an enormous business. So I'm surprised. You know, it's the same thing as like music royalties, but applied to people. Yeah, what's another real world use case that you see coming? And then we'll we'll kind of this will segue into NF Ts and, and how to make money with those.
Michael Hearne 26:14
Yeah, right on. So I would say probably some of the most impactful work is being done in the decentralized web. So right now you've got, you know, like, what, five or six companies that control the digital world. If they decide that you're not allowed to speak, you're not allowed to speak, you'll be silenced, you'll be canceled, you'll be censored, you'll be taken offline. And, you know, if you're like the president, people notice but if you're just a nobody, then nobody notices. So we've got this, these big sort of like, like, what I think are existential problems like censorship, right? We're, we're not allowed to speak things that aren't acceptable to a certain group of people. So anyways, we've got this abuse of power in this situation where you've got a lot of frustration. But it's all the product of having a centralized control over the internet. Right? So right now, if you don't want to host my website, I've got it on Amazon servers. And, you know, I'm accessing their, you know, like, if I'm using their cloud services on Macs accessing their computing power, I'm accessing their their files storage, I'm using, you know, Dropbox for for file storage, or, you know, the cloud services, right. So everything that's in the cloud right now, is controlled by a group of people. And it's, it's worth trillions and trillions of dollars. But all that benefit accrues to the, to the shareholders in those companies, right. And then the control goes to a handful of, you know, executives within the company. So
James Altucher 27:53
I'm gonna play devil's advocate there, though, like, if Dropbox loses my files, then Dropbox is essentially out of business, if they lose like one person's files, that's a huge thing. Yeah. Whereas like, let's say, file coin or store J, or these, you know, decentralized storage coins? Do they have the same incentive to be as efficient and thorough and secure as Dropbox?
Michael Hearne 28:16
Yes, I think so. It's an economic incentive. Right. So once you take that said data, right, it's $20 trillion. Business, right? So why does Amazon Amazon, you know, why do these big companies love that so much? Because it's great income, right? So in the future, as we have, you know, increased automation, we've got like, more and more in the metaverse, we're gonna need new ways to make money. Right. And just like right now, I might buy a rental house and rent it out. In the world of tomorrow, I might buy a computer and rent it out. And I might take payment and file coin. And then that file coin can be exchanged for Bitcoin, right through a decentralized exchange. So I get a passive income stream by providing internet infrastructure. Now, if it's done with a blockchain, you have to have massive failure across 1000s of nodes, once you get to that kind of tipping point with a network effect, right? So like Bitcoin, right? 50% of the mining capacity was taken offline, but then networks survived. When China banned Bitcoin mining, the network lost half of its capacity, and yet it continues to tick as if nothing had happened. And that's the same kind of redundancy that can be built into a mesh network.
James Altucher 29:36
Okay, so this is what I think is the big difference right now in crypto between 2018 and now is that there's real use cases. So take like the big storage Kryptos as an example, like file client or store J or R we've, what's actually being stored on there right now, like who is storing anything on there?
Michael Hearne 29:55
That's actually a good question. I actually don't know the answer to right so I'm unfamiliar with the projects. But as far as like, you know, my journey of discovery into this industry. I'm doing good to have my head around the macro picture. That said, I know there are projects that are on these protocols. It's just, you know, we're in that early adopter stage.
James Altucher 30:20
Why no NF T's are being store like filecoin I read has 7 million NF T's. On it, right? Because you have to store them on a on a blockchain they are, you know, a theory empowered mostly. So, so I've done a podcast on what NFT is, but maybe quickly explain it. And and I have never I have yet to buy an NF T. explain all this to me?
What Why is it the case that I'm reading these articles 12 year old girl makes 40,000 a month by creating and selling NF T's his hedge fund buys NF T's in a drop in and then flips them and makes one like what?
Michael Hearne 31:18
Right? So there's some of it that I can't explain to you, right? I think there probably is some Tulipmania going on. Right? But at the same time, there's that kind of economic principle of like, I have to value what I have less than what what I'm exchanging or for. So you know, beauties in the eye of the beholder, right. Why are baseball card that little square cardboard? worth so much money? Well, it's not to me, but there are people out there who think it is right. So there's there's a little bit of that mindset going on in an empty world. Right. And then there are purely profiteers there who are like, oh, man, I'm just going to make money off of this. And I'm going to get in and get out. And I'm going to sell to the greater fool. Right. So there's definitely that going on. And like, you know, you can't can't be mad at them. Maybe you can. It's not, it's not my approach to doing it. So right now, what we're seeing though, are the earliest use cases. So an NFT is a non fungible token, right? Fungible meaning I can exchange something that's just like it like $1 Bill is fungible with another because I can buy the same coke with it. So these are uniques. They're one of ones, right. So if I've got this unique piece of digital art, I can say like nobody has this exact piece of art on the blockchain. Right. And that is the use case that we're seeing right now. But going back to the question about mortgages, right? A mortgage is a unique document, it's a one on one is between you, the former property holder, you know, the lender, it's a unique document. So that is a one of one that can be turned into an NFT. And now that feeds into that ecosystem of decentralized finance, and it's one of the blocks that's needed for us to move to that paperless, kind of super fast approved mortgage world. So that's one of the use cases.
James Altucher 33:14
Let me let me pick that apart for a second because I think what you just said is really super insightful. I think a lot of people think NF T's are, oh, these pictures of board aids, and I'm just I'm buying an NF T I'm buying a JPEG that's crazy. And that is crazy. But I think of NF TS as a crypto that provides access to something. So if I if my mortgage becomes an NFT, whoever buys this NF T has access to a essentially a legal agreement, entitling them to a certain percentage amount of money per year and also access to my house if I don't pay
Michael Hearne 33:50
Yeah, yeah.
James Altucher 33:53
Yeah, right. So right and the legal remedies are automatic there's no court case it's right in the blockchain and and the other thing is if I'm the initial creator of the mortgage like I'm borrowing the money to buy a house right anytime that NFT is sold I might make right on a royalty I'm I get more money. So if people are very excited about my house, it might give me I get a tiny percentage royalty every time someone trades the tokens that represent my
Michael Hearne 34:24
Yeah, mortgage. Yeah, exactly. So you keep it up to up to like, you keep increasing the market value and then that becomes visible to people on the blockchain. And you know, maybe the value perceived value goes up the market price goes up.
James Altucher 34:37
Yeah, right. That's a huge incentive for the for the owner of the house to keep making improvements to the house because they'll make they'll continue to make money off of their mortgage even without selling the house. Yeah. And or they could tokenize their house, they could sell equity in their house, not even a mortgage. But also NF T's could be used in the like the entire ticketing industry can be replaced by NF T's Yeah, it is like do you see that happening? Are there are there events yet that are because the the idea is if I buy something for $100, if I buy a ticket for $2, and then sell to the scalper, the event producer doesn't make money from the scalper. But now with if every ticket isn't an NFT, the event producer loves scalpers, because they would make a royalty.
Michael Hearne 35:21
Exactly like Go ahead traded on the secondary market. You know, like, why not? It's a royalty, as you said, Yeah, this, this, I mean, the blockchain like these, these are the kind of Fallout effects that just come as, as you naturally fix things and make them more fair, and kind of more in alignment with sort of what I what I think of as natural law. Just what's the right thing to do, right? Don't be don't be a jerk, like, don't take advantage of other people. You know, if I'm supposed to get a royalty on that ticket, I get it automatically. Right? You can't judge me. I don't have to trust you to do it. Obviously, not you specifically.
James Altucher 35:58
But But is this Are these real world cases happening yet at it? So So tell me about it.
Michael Hearne 36:04
Yeah. So you know, as always, just like on the internet, advertisers are some of the first people to innovate in this space, smart media tech.io. They're doing some really cool things with advertisers around events. And they're not just doing it though, with, you know, the concert type events, they're doing it with, like in store they're making, they're making like a sale into an event. So they're gamifying using these NF T's to get a discount, but they're also kind of like making it like a Pokemon Go type thing, experience. And then the NF T's are interactive. So let's say I go to your concert. Once I get you know, when I check in, I get a ticket for a free coke. If I redeem that Coke, it converts into some sort of like, an event NFT that's unique and only for people who bought something from the concession stands, or maybe specifically in a co sponsorship with coke. But then there's like, you know, okay, what if you go to 10 of my concerts, right? Now, you'll be able to smash your NF T's together and get like a mega NFT. And maybe once you know, maybe you become like, one of 10 people that ever go to 10 of my concerts on the planet, like so I see that you're on my show. And I call you up on stage. Right? So now, there's an experiential benefit for being one of this group of people who not only went to the concert, but collected the NF T's. And so it's sort of like it ramps up the whole rewards industry to a high degree. But then there's also the economics of it, right, which is, as the ticket seller, I can get a royalty stream off the scalpers. So yeah, you know, you look at what Adidas did probably, I think, I think Nike did it before then when they released their NF T's. I mean, anything again, this goes back to this principle that the metaverse is first going to be a duplication of the physical world. And then we're going to start in the against some crazy shit that we can't even imagine. Because the tech doesn't exist yet for us to have that even model of thinking.
James Altucher 38:10
This bleeds into the metaverse. So I love the concept, which is that there's and for people who don't know the metaverse is basically there's not one Metaverse like virtual reality, we're all gonna, like suddenly lose ourselves in, it's more like, imagine, there's 1000 games out there. And they're all going to be different meta verses, and but they're going to start to be interoperable. Like if I buy things with virtual money in League of Legends, I might be able to convert, you know, sell the currency and salt sell my equipment in Dota and move one avatar from, you know, World of Warcraft to another game or whatever. And but But is this right now I'm hearing about, oh, people are buying and selling land in the metaverse and it's going crazy and blah, blah, blah. Again, I hate it when money is just about money. That's the only things that people want to do. Like, do people like you and me want to be in the metaverse? Is this just for kids? Like what's the story?
Michael Hearne 39:13
I mean, there there is an argument to be made that we're in the metaverse right now. I mean, we're on opposite sides. I don't know exactly where you are. But we're definitely not in the same room. Right. And yet, we're having this conversation in this virtual reality. I'll be it, you know, kind of archaic to what we imagined as being a virtual reality. We are kind of, you know, interacting in the metaverse right now, what's going to happen though, is it's going to become more experiential, as the hardware and the bandwidth enable us to have that. So I think yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's gonna become the norm. I think Elon Musk is kind of famous for saying like, we're already androids. It's just the interface interfaces slow. We ought to interact with the, you know the screen. So we're already tapping into the collective intelligence of mankind through the internet through these springs, right? So what's going to happen is, I mean, unless we maybe bomb ourselves back to the Stone Age, we get into some stupid war, or, you know, whatever, like, digital life is just going to become more and more a part of our reality. So it's just one of those things where, like, we're going to do it like it think about like, you know, when when we were kids, like you either fit in at your high school or you didn't write, but what we didn't know is there were millions of kids who were also the weirdos at their school. And now we can hang out in the metaverse, right? Not not saying that about us, although I probably fit that weirdo bill. But he said, like everybody can find their group, everybody can find their tribe, everybody can find a place where they're accepted. And they can they can have whatever identity they want, right.
James Altucher 41:01
But like you said, though, like I could connect with those people on Zoom, or in a chat room or on Reddit or whatever, I don't necessarily need to be in a kind of virtual place to see these people. Yeah, that's neat, though, that requires, like extra effort.
Michael Hearne 41:16
Yeah, right. That's funny. Well, let me ask you this. Sorry. So let's try to take it like, you know, let's see about the way things get developed. Right. So you've always got the military who's advancing stuff, right? Then you've got entertainment, right? You've got science, you got all these different ways that are being that are advancing this. So there's all these different sectors that are kind of, I mean, if you look at the military, it's kind of frightening what can be done with a Metaverse and the blending of human intelligence, artificial intelligence and augmented reality? You wouldn't want to be the target of that kind of, you know, attack. Right. So there's there's that role, but I don't really want to touch on that. Yeah, there's then there's take entertainment, right? What if I love Braveheart? Maybe you hate it. But it was a big action movie, right? Or like, I'm an action fan, like, so? What if that was filmed in 360? Video, so it was done with 360 cameras, I could watch it in virtual reality. I could watch the scene where they're, you know, fighting. But then, like, let's say I want to rewind and I want to turn around. And I want to look at what's happening over here behind me. Right? That's a cool experience, right? That's a new way to interact and interface with video entertainment. So there are some things that are just going to be purely adopted for the cool factor. Some are going to be utilitarian. Right? So but what's going to happen is instead of me going and fixing the robot that works on the server, and the you know, the server farm, I'm going to put on a set of AR or VR glasses, and handsets, and I'm gonna control a maintenance robot who goes over there and fixes it, right? So we've got these convergence of all these things, right? Technology, automation, right? That's replacing traditional roles, traditional jobs. But as you can see, like when you can make money playing a game, whenever you can run out your CPU, you get these new ways of making money. And that's important, because you're going to have the deflationary effects of technology kick in as well. And whenever you got deflationary effects with as much debt as we have catastrophic, potential combination, so we got all these all these forces converging. And, and really, like to me it just, it all inevitably leads to the metaverse like it's going either we bomb ourselves back into the stone age and we get rid of technology and we're, you know, the the latest things Islamisation
James Altucher 44:05
but like what will be what will be the first time you and I use the metaverse for something other than, you know, making money. Because something something like we want to use it for something.
Michael Hearne 44:15
Yeah. So I would say you're seeing that now with NF T's associated with products that are flex products. Right. So if I buy a Gucci purse, which I love Gucci purses, if I buy a Gucci purse, I can walk around and I can flex with that to like maybe 50 people if I'm in a pop like a populated place, but in the metaverse, I can flex that Gucci purse to everybody. Right? So my avatar is going to have a Gucci purse on it that I paid extra for.
James Altucher 44:50
Right? But why would you be in the metaverse in the first place?
Michael Hearne 44:53
Why are you on? I mean, why are people on social media?
James Altucher 44:57
Okay, I'm on social media because I want to See? What what? My distant friends? Yeah, you know, life is like without having to talk to him or her. That's like what? Like, what would you ever call your first grade your friend from first grade and say, Hey, how'd your kid do in a soccer tournament last week? Like, I never would, right? But now it's pleasant for me to see. Oh, yeah, I remember that guy. His son did well. So like, that's why I'm on social media. Yeah, right?
Michael Hearne 45:28
Well, so. So maybe in the future, instead of you go into that post, you know, like, you'll be able to, like, have your goggles on and go like this. And it'll like, you'll pop in the verse person view, and you'll see a sudden make the winning kick. And then you like it, and you go, like you turn around. Right? So, you know, I talked to Dan Mapes, who is a 75 year old guy who's got so much energy like he, like vibrates when he talks to you. And he's working on something called the spatial web. And so Oh, my, so let's think let's think about this. Alright, so this is kind of the metaverse kind of this the spatial web. So one of the projects that he did was with Amazon, right, they took one of their warehouses, and they duplicated it in a virtual world, right, they did a 3d duplicated model in the virtual world that worked exactly the same. And then they use AI to analyze the layout. And they, the AI instantly figured out a way that increase productivity by 40%. Right. So that is an instance of this intersection of the metaverse and the physical world being used to create efficiencies and business. Right. That's interesting. What's even cooler, though, is they use the same ai ai to analyze the employee training program, and they took the employee training from two days, down to 15 minutes.
James Altucher 47:01
So how did you that?
Michael Hearne 47:04
Magic? It's, it's, it's the AI, right? That's, that's the the algorithm was able to take all the variables that are too complex, you know, the nuances, there are too, too many of them for us to calculate and to reach a conclusion that just you know, those were the results. So honestly, like, he would be a great guy to talk to. He's fascinating. But he would have the details. Yeah.
James Altucher 47:33
So what are the five? What would you consider the five best ways to make money in crypto right now, other than buying and selling? Coins?
Michael Hearne 47:47
Yeah, so there's entrepreneurship. I mean, this is Oh, man. It's a gold rush. Like, if you are entrepreneurial minded. I mean, there's so much capital out there, ready to flood into this market, because the VCs and the smart money are all starting to realize this is inevitable, and it's going to be way bigger than the first version of the internet. And if you think about what, you know, Amazon did for early investors, like, they're, they're seeing the same potential here in crypto.
James Altucher 48:22
Amazon is a great example. Like everyone thought in 1995, oh, this internet thing is just a fad, or it's just used by academics. And Amazon came along and said, No, we have a real world use, we could sell books, yes. And clothes, like I couldn't even believe it. Like, you're gonna you're gonna sell clothes, but they that was their number two category. And then food was the number three category. Yeah. And people got comfortable with putting their credit cards in there and so on, what's going to be a catalyst that is going to really show us that crypto tips into the real world.
Michael Hearne 48:53
Well, when crypto kind of tips in in the real world will be like the way that the Hypertext Transfer Protocol crept into the real world, right? So nobody really looks at their browser bar and sees HTTPS and thinks like, Oh, I'm using, you know, the secure version of the Hypertext Transfer Protocol. But there are using it, right. So that's when crypto has kind of gone mainstream. It's whenever you're using it. You don't even know you're using it, because it's underpinning what you're doing at the user interface level. So what will be that catalyst that does that gaming, gaming? Almost certainly, right? Gaming, an NF Ts. I mean, you think about how rabid gamers are you have people that play games hours and hours a day, and I find that incredible, but there's a rabid market of gamers out there, right. And when they discover that they're able to rather than just sending money to Xbox and Microsoft, but they're actually able to make maybe not a full time living but some money, like extract some value out of that network that they're contributing to create value in I think you're gonna see that plus, like, I mean, it's fun. It's not intimidating. Right. So and what's
James Altucher 50:10
what's, what's another thing? So that's so I think I think gaming you're right gaming will will boost the metaverse and there'll be some unexpected surprise, like, there'll be work remote work stuff in the metaverse, there'll be, there'll be group things happening in the metaverse or concerts or events. So So I agree that get in game money in Metaverse, money is going to be one way to make money from crypto, the entrepreneurial opportunities are going to be there. What's another way to make money with crypto right now?
Michael Hearne 50:40
I mean, there's yield farming, if you have money in, you know, a CD, a certificate of deposit or some other low yield asset. There's the opportunity to make much higher yields. But that that's purely financial motivation. But also, I mean, like, it's a big, kind of an important issue. But how do you how do you do that? Well, so you would, you know, you can either participate as an automated market maker, right? So you talked about that earlier, where you've got the market maker in the middle of every stock transaction, they're providing liquidity, because they're the, they'll buy anything, and they'll sell anything, right? So in exchange for providing that liquidity, they get a cut of every transaction, right? So you can go provide liquidity in a liquidity pool.
James Altucher 51:30
I'm sorry, what? And and again, I just want to make sure everyone understands, can you describe what providing liquidity means?
Michael Hearne 51:36
Yeah, it means that you put the cryptocurrency in there, and you agree to leave it in there in exchange for yield.
James Altucher 51:43
And so like, I leave my Aetherium, at uniswap, for instance. And, and they need that because for all people want to buy Aetherium, now they have a theorem to give them back. And they don't have to give it back to me because I've agreed for a certain amount of time, like in a CD or a treasury bill or whatever. And what kind of yield can I get?
Michael Hearne 52:03
It varies a lot. I've seen everything on the low end from you know, three to 5%, all the way up to 20%. Depending on, you know, where you're looking, I know, there are some that go way higher, but I don't even I don't want to get into that. Because it gets way out of like, what
James Altucher 52:19
are the risks in doing that?
Michael Hearne 52:21
So with yield farming, right, you're taking it, you're taking it, you're borrowing against it, or you're borrowing against it, and then you're taking that money, and then you're reinvesting it into something and maybe borrowing against it again, right. So the risk, there's become over leveraged. But the real risk is that you could one lose your collateral, or really on the on the, if you're on the staking side of things, the smart contracts are set up in such a way that the worst thing that can happen is you wind up owning someone else's collateral. Because the loan gets that collateral gets triggered. So let's say that, you know, I borrow $100,000, in a secured by $100,000, in Aetherium, or $300,000, in Aetherium. And then the price of Aetherium crashes far enough. So that that $100,000 loan is no longer got enough collateral against it, I would lose my Aetherium that I pledged as collateral.
James Altucher 53:18
I see. So okay, it's it's a risk, but it's not it's not gonna stop and yeah, yeah, that's interesting. So all I have to do to make like 20% Instead of like a the equivalent on a savings account is go to an a decentralized exchange and say and and there's probably big buttons that say, Hey, stake you know, some of your liquidity for yield farming and you're off to the races. Yeah, absolutely.
Michael Hearne 53:41
And this is one of those cases just like anything new attack, like just, you know, Google's your friend, YouTube's your friend, like whenever you have questions about these things and as far as like, you know, technical things like how do I you know, connect my wallet, those kind of those kind of things. They're not that hard they're you know, it's just like a new app is sometimes confusing to you and to get get the hang of it. But I mean, if you can use Facebook, you can use these apps.
James Altucher 54:10
So tell me about like your what your offer right now you did this nine part Docu series got it really looks fascinating. Everything from the story of Bitcoin, why Bitcoin versus gold? Why because you know, you compare Bitcoin and Etherium you talk about buying Bitcoin, you talk about what web 3.0 is, you completely survey that whole NFT world you call the everything revolution, you talk about Defy. You talk about crypto versus Fiat, the dark side of crypto and so on. What's What's your Are you offering a product like what's what's is do people have to pay for this or what's the story? Yeah, so
Michael Hearne 54:49
that anybody can watch it for free. They go to uncensoredcrypto.com/altucher. And they can they can just register there. They give me their email address. We'll send them a link so I guess there is an exchange of value there, you give up your contact info in exchange to watch the series for free.
James Altucher 55:07
Why did why do they need to go to /altucher? Or what if they just go to uncensored? crypto.com?
Michael Hearne 55:12
Well, you're the one who, who is referring them. So it makes sense for you to get some some credit for it. I don't know, we'll figure out something like we've got some free reports on the work. And some and some premium reports that we were gonna sell down the line, we'll figure out something special to give your guests
James Altucher 55:31
and I sure yes, as I want, I want I want people to benefit. Yeah, yeah,
Michael Hearne 55:35
absolutely. I actually, I outlined a three coin report this morning for the editorial team. So we'll we'll throw that in. To anybody who goes what does that mean? What are they what they get in that report? Let me let me remember the details. Oh, boy. I've done 50 things since then. It was actually it was around defy right. It was cuz we've got this concept about defy is going to Uber big banks, because it's kind of inevitable. Like when you have a superior product that benefits everyone economically in the value chain, like it's going to win, right? The superior technology wins, people are gonna flock to things that are more valuable. It's just, it's just economics. So we talked about Defy. And so what will be in there is there's going to be something in there on yield farming, on borrowing and lending, on remittances as well as automated market makers. So second, taking a mm hmm role in providing liquidity. So we'll we'll give our top recommendations on those.
James Altucher 56:42
And when can people start seeing your Docu series? Yeah, so they, they can sign
Michael Hearne 56:45
up at any time between now and the 18th, the 18th, the first episode drops. So each episode, I leave it up for free for 24 hours, just like you know, old TV, except you got a whole 24 hours to watch. And then so put up episode 12345 all the way through episode nine. And people could just watch it for free. There's a link, if you got a smartphone or a web browser, you know, just just tune in. And then there is the opportunity to own the series. But really, you know, my goal right now, and the whole reason I started this project is because I saw the impact this could have on going back to something you touched on right? There's there's the financial economy where people are engineering things and making money just about making money. And then there's the real economy where I provide value to you, and you provide value and a reciprocal kind of sacred, like thing that we do as a species. And
James Altucher 57:45
well, I'm very, I'm very excited. And I really do think there's huge entrepreneurial opportunities like i i wish i was 25 and like neck deep in this and and I think there's everything from I don't know for Metaverse, opportunities to securitizing like income flows to creating a ticket mass and NFT Ticketmaster. You know, I think, is there any company that makes private label meta versus, like, I'd like to have my own metaverse. I don't want to use the sandbox. I want to make my own metaverse.
Michael Hearne 58:20
Well, I don't know if there there are any but there will be I'm sure. And then that's the kind of the cool thing like this Metaverse thing can get really far down the rabbit hole, because I can create a game inside of in a Metaverse that people pay me to play. Right and then maybe allow I have 10 of these games that are built inside the metaverse and I everybody that comes in, pays me you know, five bucks to play the game. And now
James Altucher 58:48
because you don't have to play you can afford it because you don't have to pay huge fees to like Xbox, for instance to get distribution. You can just in you could return those costs to the customer,
Michael Hearne 59:00
right? And now with absolutely think about this right. So now that I've got 10 of these games, I've got an income stream inside of this metaverse. Maybe I listed on a stock market that only exists inside the metaverse and now I've got an economy and economic model that's operating inside of this world where I've got businesses and now we're trading assets, paper assets on businesses inside of a metaverse. So I think we're going to see this go really deep down the rabbit hole. And to be honest, the reason I think this is I was I was actually at my son's basketball practice. And my middle son and my youngest son is nine looks up at me. He's talking to me about his game. I want to be engaged and interested in what he's interested in. He's telling me how he's got this business inside of a game and he's making all this money, but the but it's a very inflationary economy, is what he said to me and I was like, What did you just say? And I'm like, What do you Why is my nine You're talking to me about inflation. And then he explained to me how you could inflate the money supply. So he was talking about the classical Austrian sense of inflation. This is the generation of kids that are coming up,
James Altucher 1:00:12
right? That's fascinating. So like they're aware of what's going on, they want. They're in the metaverse already. They're playing the games. They're trading the NF T's already. They're there. Every kid that I know of is asking for a coin base account so they could trade. Crypto, yes. And by the way, they also know sushi swap, swap, simple swap pancake and all these other decentralized exchanges, like DY DX has has more transactions, then coin base, but nobody is even aware of it. Like the average person. So we're just at the right like inning zero. I always thought 2018 was earning zero. But I feel now is zero because we're sort of over the hump of whether or not this is a fad. Exactly. And final thing, what are you like that? Or Bitcoin or a theory?
Michael Hearne 1:00:55
Oh, man, you had to ask me that.
James Altucher 1:00:58
I like I did have to ask that. I
Michael Hearne 1:01:00
like them both for different reasons. If I had, oh, man, if I had to pick, I probably have to go with Bitcoin right now. Because it's the leader is the leader more what's most important to me about all this stuff is decentralization, right? I hate the abuse of power. I hate like, you know, these hidden taxes like inflation, and you know, the intentional dumbing down of people. It just irks me, right. So the fact that Satoshi Nakamoto was an unknown entity, is really important to me. And as a result of that not being a physical person. It gives a level of trust that can't be provided, whenever you've got an organization who's in charge of the network, right? Because the world is not a, it's not all sunshine and roses, there are bad people who will do very bad things to coerce other people to do what they want. And whenever you have a founder or a CEO, that person is always an attack vector, the government can send men with guns, or somebody can blackmail that individual. And so that's always a weakness. So the more decentralized something is, the more I'm in, right? So that's why I go for Bitcoin, honestly. And the network effect is there it is the biggest of them all. I like Aetherium because of the functionality. But
James Altucher 1:02:28
yeah, yeah, let me play devil's advocate a little bit like Bitcoin, the use case was originally that it would be not only a currency, but highly functional with smart contracts and all that, but Aetherium kind of replaced that vision of Bitcoin. And most of the defi projects, which are actually being again used by millions of people now are Aetherium powered, so is real and Ethereum
Michael Hearne 1:02:52
scale. Absolutely, yeah. And that's why I'm so I'm so torn. Because by the same token, like, what can happen over time as Aetherium can become more decentralized, right? So I'm watching them both, I think they're both critically important, you know, bitcoins got the layer two solutions that are being built on top of it, that provide the same functionality as Aetherium. So that's an interesting race. I mean, we're in the early 90s. With tech stocks. So my take is honestly we're gonna have some, we're gonna have things emerge, we're gonna have the Facebook Amazons apples, those are going to emerge. But it's,
James Altucher 1:03:32
man, it's a really great time, I think, not to be like a lot of people are raising money as like a crypto hedge fund. But it's a real great time to be a VC in the space.
Michael Hearne 1:03:41
Some hurt me. Absolutely, man. Absolutely. One of the things I want to do for people who sign up for the Docu series is on the back end, I mean, like we will get access to that kind of deal flow because I'll be high profile right, higher profile than I am. And then you know, for the with regulatory environment being what it is right? It's now accessible for non accredited investors to get in on the action. So this like to me this is this is just such a good movement. It's such a good time to be alive. Because opportunities are just opening up like so quickly right now. And that's why that's why I wanted to share the story because you look at the news and you would think like the world's falling apart and I guess in some respects it is but there's also a whole lot of things to be hopeful about.
James Altucher 1:04:35
Yeah, no, I agree with you. Well, Michael aren't so how do people find out about this and I and in a way that I want my listeners to benefit you're doing a lot of work in this space I want I want everybody to benefit absolutely
Michael Hearne 1:04:47
well, uncensoredcrypto.com/altucher is going to be the best way for people to come they can sign up they can watch the series for free. I mean, if all you do is watch the series for free, your eyes are going to be opened up Hopefully you'll be inspired to get in on the action because we can make a better world with this stuff. And then we'll throw in that free report on the top three Kryptos in defy right now.
James Altucher 1:05:09
All right, excellent. Well, thanks once again, Michael for coming on the show and you're welcome anytime and I love learning more about crypto. It's my favorite topic in finance right now. So thanks once again and everybody check out at uncensoredcrypto.com/altucher. When's it coming out with the Docu series?
Michael Hearne 1:05:31
January 18. But they should head over there right now because we're gonna give away some bitcoin and prizes so it's gonna be a lot of fun to just go over there now, but definitely by January 18
James Altucher 1:05:40
Okay, so uncensoredcrypto.com/altucher. Sure, I don't know what Michaels planning but I'll make sure he planned something to to listeners to benefit. Thanks very much, Michael.
Michael Hearne 1:05:50
Thank you, James. Appreciate it.